Al Shamblin, Police Chief

Michael Damon, Fire Chief

Mayor Cherveny and Chairperson Picot called the Special Joint Meeting of the City Council and Planning Commission to order at 7:00 P.M.

Charles Hayden, Planning Director, led the Pledge of Allegiance at the request of Mayor Cherveny and the assemblage joined in.

CITIZENS COMMENTS

Susan Price, City Manager, announced that CalTrans would be holding an I-5 Concept Community meeting on October 16, 2003 from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at the Red Bluff Community/Senior Center.  The purpose of the event is to provide the public an opportunity to discuss the future needs and development opportunities for Interstate 5. 

CURRENT BUSINESS

JOINT CITY COUNCIL – PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING

Mayor Cherveny stated that she appreciated that all the City Council and Planning Commission members were able to attend this meeting.  The idea behind this meeting was to have an informal setting so that items could be dealt with in an open fashion with some of the City Council and Commission issues that have come up in the last year.

Mayor Cherveny asked that the Councilmembers and Commissioners hold on to the material that was handed out with their packets for future meetings.

Charles Hayden, Planning Director, stated that the material gathered together was done as a group effort, with input from the City Manager, City Council and Planning Commissioners.  

Mr. Hayden reviewed the staff report and gave staffs recommendation that the City Council and Planning Commission discuss and direct staff to submit proposed standards relating to Upgraded Land Division Standards and Zoning, Traffic Calming in Residential Neighborhoods and Large Vehicle and Trailer Parking in Residential Neighborhoods.

1. Upgraded Land Division Standards and Zoning

Mayor Cherveny asked if anyone in the audience wished to speak at this time on this item and hearing none brought the discussion back to the City Council and Planning Commission for discussion. 

Mayor Cherveny stated that with regards to upgraded Land Division Standards and Zoning one of the things she would like to look at are the Design Standards that the City has for residential, as well as commercial.  Some of the standards out there are standards that were written years ago and this is the opportunity where if we want to see some quality housing coming into our community we are the body that can set those standards.  She further stated that she would like to see the City get away from some of the wood fencing and that with some of the subdivisions coming in she would like to see some block walls.

Commissioner Dale stated that as a Planning Commissioner they receive less input from citizens than the City Council as they are at a higher level, where as they are elected they answer to the voters.  The City Council level is where things get done.  He did recall that there was a discussion in previous years regarding quality fencing and in his personal options a block wall fencing is better as well as the upkeep is cheaper.  As far as housing and the flow of traffic, not one citizen had ever spoken to him of that.

Councilmember Stevens stated that with the topic of fencing you see more front yard fencing and that he believes that people feel safer with this because if their children are playing in the front yard they can’t just dash out into the street.  At some point there needs to be a discussion addressing the height of the fence, either shoulder or waist high on the side of the sidewalks.  In addition to that the issue of various means of wood fencing he believes that’s something that can be looked at with block walls, but that wood fencing should be looked at and some how grand fathered in.  At some point the fence should be graduated down to a lower height as it gets next to the sidewalk.

Commissioner Herring agreed with this and also wanted to address an administrative approach to lot line adjustments.  This is something that could be dealt with administratively in the office by the Planning Director, as the Planning Commission automatically passes these.  He further stated that for traffic calming in residential neighborhoods that stop signs are not used to control the speed of traffic.  They should only be used to control intersections and that he has problems with just placing stop signs for the sake of slowing traffic down.

Commissioner Irving asked if there had been any consensus from the residents on Aloha Street.

Ms. Price stated that the City Council recently approved the procuring of a consultant to perform a traffic study and that this was something that she asked be included in that study is the contact with the residents of areas in the study.

Commissioner Herring stated that reduced speed limits and having enforcement are a problem for the Police Department, but it’s the most effective way to control the problem. 

Mayor Cherveny stated that one of the questions we have to ask is what we as a body are going to do to control this in the future.  She had mentioned to Mr. Hayden that in Sacramento, she believed it was on I Street, they had a bulb out that forced the traffic to slow down without stopping the flow of traffic and maybe something similar to this could be done in the Aloha area to slow traffic.  She further stated that the City Council relies on the Planning Commission to do the work and when it comes to Council it should almost be right within the guidelines and should almost be just an approval for the Council.  If we’re all on the same page then this happens better and that’s why her hopes were to come up with something in this brainstorming meeting.

Commissioner Irving stated that his sense is that by the time a project gets to the Planning Commission its finished and that he feels hesitant to make off the cuff changes in one meeting. 

Commissioner Herring stated that wanted to respectfully disagree with Commissioner Irving and that when he came on to the Planning Commission because a Commissioner resigned because he said that the Commission was “rubber stamping” the wishes of the Planning Department and that he had not found that.  In many cases the Planning Commission has refused what the Developer wants and have dictated a change.  He believes he has seen the Commission turning things around and making things better for the community, not just for the developer or for their own personal desires.

Commissioner Irving questioned Commissioner Herring if he felt the changes made had been fairly minor.

Commissioner Herring stated that all it’s takes is minor changes.  Some decisions have been made with the recommendation of the Fire Department.

Chairperson Picot requested clarification from the City Manager regarding the survey to be done on Aloha.

Ms. Price stated that a Request for Proposals to perform an overall Traffic Study in the City had been sent out, the proposals will be evaluated when they come back in and a recommendation for the selection of a consultant will be presented the City Council.

Chairperson Picot stated that he felt this would be a jump off point for them to look at because then that way it’s something that has been established.

Ms. Price stated that this points out one of the reasons that Mayor Cherveny suggested for this meeting.  If there is a way to involve the Planning Commission, or you are then aware of what they recommend.

Chairperson Picot stated that once the final report has been received the Planning Commission could review and fine-tune the recommendations and come up with a proposal.

Ms. Price stated that something that concerns her is the Land Division Standards and that she believed the last revision was 1990.  One of the things staff has been trying to address is some of these documents and standards that have not been addressed in 10-12-15 years.  The City is growing at a rate and a pace and these are important documents to have revised and she believes that they literally address standards for development.

Councilmember Avilla questioned if there was any guideline on how often these should be reviewed and updated.  Is 10 years a long time?

Ms. Price stated that most cities will revise or look at revising fee standards every 5 years, with a CPI change between those 5 years.

Gary Antone, Director of Public Works, stated that typically what happens is that the Land Division Standards are there to help the developer develop their property.  The Planning side is more apt to change than the Public Works side and what he means by that is that you’ll have changes in the way subdivisions are now.  You’ll have street curbing, sidewalk issues, pedestrian ways, bikeways and while the Land Division Standards should include a lot of that verbiage, however a fair amount of it does come out of the Planning side of it also.  So what this document does is provide the basis for the development of a subdivision to the type of drainage, how to build a roadway up and so this document is the basic building block and the more artistic style that is put in a subdivision to make it look better, sell better and provide better traffic circulation. But typically the Land Division Standards as they are are looked at every 5 years to see if there’s something been tested, that is completely new, but to rewrite the entire document usually doesn’t happen less than 10-15 years.

Ms. Price stated that for example on page A-11 where it states “street lighting shall be supplied for all intersections, cul-de-sacs and at intervals of 400 feet”.  There may be a different perspective in terms of how many feet of intervals of lighting in a particular subdivision.  As Mr. Antone stated this document is the basic building block for the subdivision.

Councilmember Avilla questioned if the City Manager was recommending that this document be revised in the process.

Ms. Price stated yes and that she and Mr. Antone had discussed that.

Councilmember Avilla asked how long of a process is the revision of this.

Mr. Antone stated that at the outside he would say 12 months.  This will allow us to see what larger cities are doing and draw on their experiences on what has been tested.

Councilmember Avilla asked if this was something that would be done in house.

Ms. Price stated no that the City would procure a consultant and that is what Mr. Antone means when he say’s in terms of a year is the entire project, the writing of the proposal, the selection of the consultant, the contract, the work, the involvement with the public meetings, it will take time.

Mayor Cherveny stated that she believed that it’s important as Commissioners and as Council that we review the document and whatever suggestions you have be submitted to staff.  Any input we can give them to go along with the developers will help.  There are also other things to look at, community policing, the Police Department, Fire stations, parks that we can say that these fees need to be looked at and put this money aside for the future needs.

Councilmember Stevens stated that in regards to the street light issue, he lives in a neighborhood that has substantial street lights, but at the time that the subdivision was built there wasn’t a lot of pedestrian traffic heading south on South Jackson from Vista school, so if you travel So. Jackson you’ll see that street lighting is pretty sparse in that area.  Another thing that we need to take into consideration that when we create new subdivisions in areas that were not only sparsely lit before that not only are we addressing the intersection lighting, but also the pedestrian traffic that is going to be created in that neighborhood.  These are things that he feels we can tack on for additional funding to address the issue of lighting when a developer comes in, and have that additional safety built in and assist our Police Department as well.  As more and more projects come our way the thing that we don’t want to forget is trying to be understanding and user friendly.  We don’t want to over regulate, but by the same token we want to make sure that we’re fair for the community as a whole as well as those who are trying to improve properties.  The City needs to keep in mine public safety and aesthetics when making decisions and recommendations.

Commissioner Ballantine stated that the City of Red Bluff has a unique small town charm and we have to ask ourselves are we losing that charm.  Are we putting up just another cookie cutter town along I-5.  You have to have an idea of the overall look that you want see the community looking like 100 years from now and what kind of people you want to draw to the community.  He’s seen communities in Southern California that have looked like war zones, but once they put in aesthetics in the Code, be it early American or Californian and adhered to it, it’s a hard pill to swallow, but once they adhered to it crime went down, better homes went in, less congestion. 

Richard Crabtree, City Attorney, stated that the document that really should contact the vision for the future is the General Plan.  The most important document when you’re looking at Planning is the General Plan and the courts have held that your General Plan is a constitution that governs all future growth of the City and the General Plan is a much easier read than some the technical documents regarding setbacks and that kind of thing.  The law doesn’t have any specific requirement on how often you update the General Plan except for the Housing Element and that’s required to be updated every 5 years.  He encouraged the City Council and Planning Commissioners to look at the General Plan and make sure that it reflects your vision for the City.

Commissioner Irving questioned if the Land Division Standards could be characterized as a set of minimum standards.

Mr. Crabtree stated yes the guide should come from the General Plan.

Councilmember Avilla questioned when the General Plan was last looked at.

Mr. Hayden stated that all the elements were updated between 1992-1994.  There is a fund set up where money collected from developers with each home and/or commercial building with the sole purpose to update the General Plan.  As an example under the Goals, Policies and Objectives of the General Plan that states under Community Character and Aesthetics that reads “Conserve and improve community historic residential neighborhoods, public comments of traditional business sites and environments.  Promote and maintain a pleasing and positive physical appearance for the community. Adopt and enforce architectural review guidelines”.  It’s important that staff receive direction of what you as City Council and Planning Commissioners want.

Commissioner Irving questioned if that when staff is advising developers are they using the General Plan or advising them of minimum standards.

Mr. Hayden stated that as the City Attorney stated the General Plan is the constitution of development.  The standards are what you actually use to implement the General Plan and if you leave vagueness in the General Plan then issues don’t get addressed. 

Mr. Crabtree stated that by law you can update your General Plan up to 4 times per year.

Mayor Cherveny stated that what the City is finding is that the City was begging for people to come build anything and now they’re here. 

Commissioner Irving questioned what if we were to revise these standards to include the optimum or desired standards.

Mr. Hayden stated that some developers are from out of town and the build the larger commercial building and leave, but there are local developer that care about the community. 

Chairperson Picot stated that he sees nothing wrong with raising the standards and fees.  The developer is going to pass the increase on to the buyers, but it’s going to be such a small amount that the buyer won’t see it.

Ms. Price stated that the staff is currently reviewing responses received in response to a Request for Proposals that was advertised and will be making a recommendation to the City Council on the selection of a Consultant to review the Development Impact Fees.

Chairperson Picot asked how the City’s fees compare to other towns our size.

Mr. Antone stated that our fees are below what other Cities are currently charging.

Commissioner Irving questioned how likely the money was to come from these fees for parks.

Mayor Cherveny stated that her experience as a Planning Commissioner and a Councilmember that we don’t want to be afraid to ask for these.  Ask the developer for a park in a subdivision being proposed.

Ms. Price stated that for example staff is currently looking for grants to help fund a new Police Facility, because if you look at the Development Impact Fees that have been collected there’s maybe $70,000 in that account.  If the fees had been revised and kept up with development there would have been a substantial amount in the fund.  The fees should reflect the cost to provide services.

Mayor Cherveny stated that when looking at “big box” developers that are coming in and those big boxes have big money and we need to be able to say that we need additional funds to put a fire station at your end of town.

Mr. Antone pointed out that the Development Impact Fees had not been overhauled since their inception in 90-91 and the last time they were adjusted was in 1996 and construction was not that good at those times.  The minimums standards say that this is the least that a developer can do, however this is what we would like to see you do.

Commissioner Ballantine stated that the governing bodies as a whole need to look at what we want this town to look like in the future.

Rob Gibbs, Director of Parks and Recreation, gave an example of the Development Impact Fees for Recreation compared to other cities and the City of Red Bluff is substantially lower than these cities.

Councilmember Avilla questioned where the City was in these process and if the City was behind the 8 ball on these fees.

Ms. Price stated that Mr. Antone was correct in saying that construction was low in the 1990’s and now that we’ve been found growth is happening so quickly and we’re trying to address it.  Within the next 12 months you should see a conclusion of revision standards, fees and policies and she hopes to be able to implement some of these changes by July 1^st.

Mayor Cherveny stated that the Planning Commission should know that this does not preclude you from having your own study session when these developments come up.  We rely heavily on the Planning Commission to do a lot of this work and if you have a suggestion to feel free to express it.

Ms. Price stated that in speaking of sewer projects, Mr. Antone may add to that, but he has had the foresight to have started and completed master plans for providing water and sewer to developments.

Mr. Antone thanked Ms. Price for bringing that to their attention and stated that as a City we can tell people now that developers have to extend facilities to developments.

Ms. Price stated that City Staff is putting in many hours; some are here after hours and on weekends trying to keep up with all the development and documents that have been submitted. 

Councilmember Flynn stated that he believed it was important that we continue to up date all of these rules and regulations.  Start in one direction and move forward. We need to say this is the direction we want to see our City go.

Mayor Cherveny agreed with Councilmember Flynn and asked for comments from the Council and Commission members as to the direction they would like staff to work on.

Mr. Bartel, concerned citizen, spoken on his concerns with what the City has done and that he has hears a lot about Chico and maybe Chico can help you.  Send staff down to Chico to learn how they’re doing things.

Mayor Cherveny recommended that Mr. Bartel attend a Planning Commission or Council Meeting and put something on the agenda to discuss concerns.

Patrick Sullivan, concerned citizen, asked if there had ever been a consideration to adopt a slow growth or a moratorium on building to allow staff to catch up.  Need to have catch up policies before staff is over worked.

Commissioner Herring stated that Mr. Sullivan had spent a year with about ½ dozen other people attending meetings and working on the tree ordinance going through Council now.

Commissioner Dale stated that most of the Planning Commission members don’t know the staff, they don’t receive City Council minutes and/or agendas and when they see something, they try to design on the fly and still get the project out.

Commissioner Irving stated that everything that comes before the Planning Commission says “staff’s recommendation”.  Commission members need to start pointing out some of the shortcomings of a project.

Councilmember Avilla stated that the City Council relies very heavily on staff to make a good report to the Council so that they can make the right decision and if the standards are not up to date then he has a concern.  The City of Red Bluff is not experiencing anything different from other cities and we have to continue to update our policies and not be afraid to let people know if we want something done differently.  We need to let the people know that if they want to develop here we need to see certain things.

Commissioner Ballantine stated that he doesn’t want to see more big boxes, but we need to decide what we want the City to look like.  He further stated that he would like to see the beautification of South Main and that Mr. Hayden has put money in the budget to get this done and he understands that budget items get redlined because of funding.  Would like to see law enforcement enforce the traffic laws; sees aesthetics as a major role in the development in Red Bluff.

Councilmember Stevens stated that everything on the agenda for tonight’s meeting affect the quality of life.  He wants to make sure that the City is a warm and friendly place to live and want’s to see the City maintain that feel.  If you implement block walls it segregates people from getting to know your neighborhood.  Although big box stores are not always the most beautiful things to look at, its not that we can’t say that their facades are going to look a little differently and they are going to reflect the design of the community.  That can be done and it takes the thoughts of these two bodies, as well as the community to tell us what they want.

Councilmember Herring questioned why the City is concerned about the sewer systems in Antelope when those people don’t want to join the City.

Ms. Price stated that there are commercial areas in the Antelope area that are affected and are within the City limits.  The Regional Water Quality Control Board has said if the problems are not addressed it will place a moratorium on building in the Antelope Area.

Commissioner Herring stated that he doesn’t have a problem with the Commercial area, it’s the residential areas that spread out in that area and they want us to fix their problem.

Ms. Price stated that the City did procure a grant and did our own study first to see if we could provide services, but it will be up to property owners to approve or not approve the program.

Mr. Antone stated that we have been working to sewer areas within the City Limits in the Antelope area, but the County is larger so they are the lead agency on the situation.

Chairperson Picot stated that he appreciates Mr. Hayden’s comments and his and staff recommendations that are brought to the Planning Commission and he feels that we are behind the 8 ball when it comes to fees and would like to make that a priority.  Feels that this has been a very good meeting. 

Mayor Pro Tem Flynn stated that it still goes back to keeping standards up to date and this is his concern.  Staff has to know what we want to do their job so the Council and Commission need to give them direction.  We can still keep the small town atmosphere and grow.  People will still bring developments in if they know what our minimum requirements are, but if we don’t give them the requirements they’re going to give us their minimum requirements.  Continue to move ahead on traffic calming as he is against stop signs and feels there is a better way to calm traffic.  As for large vehicle and trailer parking we need to move in that direction to solve this problem.  If the Council and Commission give staff the tools to do their job then this too can be addressed.

Commissioner Dale stated that seeing a slight difference between the Planning Commission and City Council as the Planning Commissioners are more politically naïve about things.  He further stated that everyone has a common vision and that is that we want a friendly town and everyone has the common desire to get things done. 

Councilmember Houghton stated that two things he heard at this evenings meeting scared him and those were the comments of slowing down growth or turn it off, we don’t like Big Boxes.  A lot of people wouldn’t have anywhere to shop if it weren’t for Wal-Mart.  He is pro growth and would like to see a big company come in with lot of jobs, but then we’d have more big boxes.  The City is growing and we need to change the standards to meet the vision we want for our City.

Commissioner Irving stated that the Impact Fees need to be raised.  Would like to see a dedicated fund for open space.  The more general account the more likely the money in that account will be used for another large expenditure rather than purchasing open space.

Mayor Cherveny stated that the goal is to help set policy and give direction to improve the quality of life in the community.  She stated that she appreciates the staff members and that the Councilmembers and Commissioner rely heavily on the staff.  Both the Councilmembers and Commissioners care and we’re trying to take those steps to make up for lost time and we’ll trying to fix things in our community.  We have not hit everything as much as we would have liked to, but the lines of communication are open. 

Chairperson Picot questioned if another date would be set for another work session.

Ms. Price stated that the next meeting would be in March 2004.

Mr. Hayden stated that there are a lot of things going on now and that they had negotiated a park in a new subdivision.  The City is negotiating with developers to plant trees along the entrance to town and also in front of their development. The City is negotiating with developers for more landscaping in shopping centers, the Housing Element is being updated and we are trying to implement some of these concepts based on what we think you would like us to do based on that you have requested.

Mayor Cherveny requested that Mr. Hayden schedule a work session with the Planning Commission to review the Southside Study.

Commissioner Herring requested that the next meeting be specific to one subject.

ADJOURNMENT

At 9:05 P.M. Mayor Cherveny adjourned the special meeting to October 7, 2003 at 7:00 P.M. for the City Council and October 14, 2003 for the Planning Commission, both in the Red Bluff City Council Chambers.

Respectfully submitted,

s/b Charles Hayden

Planning Director

CEH/cls